TWL LIVE! - EmptyWithoutBrain V VenomFangX - Society debate

Emptywihoutbrain debates VenomfangX on the subject of Atheist Society V Christian Society Also related calls and questions

TWL LIVE! - Special guest : Martin Wagner

Atheist Experience host Martin Wagner drops by for a chat, A rambling call about metaphysics and questions from our chat-room. Hosts : Zulufightrunner, TheKitch2 & Martymer81 Guests : AngryWomble & SoundofScilence Special Guest : Martin Wagner

TWL LIVE! - 22nd April 2012

TWL LIVE! 22nd April 2012 : Homeopath, Christian Word Games & 50 Reasons to Believe in God Hosts : ZuluFightrunner, TheKitch2, Martymer81, BigLundi & Emptywithoutbrain

TWL LIVE! - Easter Special

TWL Easter show : Easter Quiz, The Troll English Defender & 101 reasons for a young earth. Hosts : ZuluFightrunner, TheKitch2, Martymer81 & BigLundi Guests : Angrywomble & Lefayad1991

Trolling With Logic Live - Way of the Master PWNAGE

Way Of the Master Gets the TWL LIVE PWNAGE! treatment.

Hosts: Zulufightrunner, TheKitch2, Damaxman, Feredir28 & Martymer81
Guests: AngryWomble, SoundOfScilence, DutchLiam84 & Lefayad1991

TWL LIVE! - Special Guest : Bionic Dance

Everyone's favourite sci-fi loving lesbian , Bionic Dance Drops by for a chat with the TWL boys. We get trolled with silence, a huge philosophical battle with BigLundi and a Nutter from the English Defence League.

Hosts : ZuluFightrunner, TheKitch2, EmptyWithoutBrain, Martymer81, Feredir28 & Damaxman

TWL LIVE! - Special Guest : Joe Zamecki

The captain cool of Atheism , Joe Zamecki Drops by for a chat with the TWL boys. We talk about Atheist Activism, Atheist Experience, American Atehists and scary nazi bikers.

Hosts : Zulufightrunner, Thekitch2, Martymer81

Trolling With Logic Live - Kent Hovind PWNAGE Part II

The team conclude PWNing Kent Hovind's "100 reasons why evolution is so stupid" Live.

With: Zulufightrunner, Thekitch2, Admiralcasey18 & Martymer81.

Special guests from Skeptic TV : SoundofScilence & AngryWomble

Responding to reformador7

During my recent escapades on Twitter, I have come across some delightfully idiotic creationists. One of whom is reformador7, who I challenged with Human Chromosome #2 as evidence for common ancestry. In response, he sent me a blog (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/fdidc9). To which this blog is a response to.


To start off, evolution is a done deal. There is far too much evidence in its favour to doubt it in lue of creationism, to do so would be either an act of extreme ignorance or self deception. There is evidence from all over biology, such as genetics, paleotology, biochemistry, comparative anatomy, developmental biology etc.
There are 3 areas I will address in this blog: 1) Human chromosome #2 is a fusion of two ape chromosomes, and proves common ancestry with apes, 2)Evolution of intelligence in Humans and 3) evolution of miRNAs.

First off why does chromosome 2 support common ancestry with apes? Well humans have 46 chromosome, apes have 48. In order for common ancestry to be correct, one chromosome has to be lost (which is determental) or two chromosomes fused. Fusion was suggested based on the banding patterns of humans and apes (Yanis and Prakash, 1982. Stanyon 1983). This was then confirmed by Molecular cytogenic data (Hastie and Allshire 1989, Clemente et al, 1990) and the location of the telomere to telomere fusion point located on the chromosomal band 2q13 (Ijdo et al, 1991, Luke and Verma, 1992). One strawman commited by reformador is that fusions produce new species. No one has said this, it's proof of our common ancestry, not THE speciation event. The Ninth Commandment is not optional people. At the end of the blog, he claims that Dr Millers statement that the only way that creationists can explain it is by "thats the way the designer made it", however he explains it by saying the designer made the chromosomal banding patterns similar, and apes and humans had the same number of chromosomes. However it is still thats the way the 'designer made it argument", only with a fusion step in, which is still only proof of a deceptive designer. Furthermore chromosome 2 can only be explained with fusion of two ape chromosomes becuase of the centromere of human chromosome 2 lines up with the chimp chromosome 2p chromosomal centromere (Ijdo et al, 1991) and at the place where we would expect it on the human chromosome we find the remnants of the chimp 2q centromere (Averello et al, 1992).



Figure 1: Kasai et al, 2000

He states in his blog "reliable eyewitness testimony is more powerful than circumstantial evidence in establishing historical details". To which I say this is utterly wrong, circumstancial evidence, is still evidence. However the evidence for evolution is beyond cricumstancial, and for the bible the evidence is lacking or contradictory (e.g the flood).

He brings up intelligence in humans. However like a typical creationist, he hasn't bothered to check the literature.One such article I found stated bipediality produced a larger brain (but blocked enlargement of the parturient canal and retarded further increases in the size of the brain). Changes in copulation behavior contributed to the evolution of language.Females further evolved language in order to take care of the infants. Male Homos accelerated food acquisition activities to provide the energy required to maintain a larger brain.Females who acquired the initiative in copulation begun to select male partners by their ability to provide food and security. By this sexual selection, the evolution of language was accelerated (Hattori,1998). He states that such advancements were never observed, and inferred because evolution has an atheistic base. Evolution doesn't have anything to say with god. In fact Dr. Miller who he refers to in this article is a practising Catholic.

Next our dear creationist friend tries to argue that miRNAs are proof of a god, and against evolution. MiRNAs are non coding RNAs that regulate gene expression at the pretranslatory level. First off the evolution miRNAs is underexplored in the literature, this however does not mean it that it didn't evolve, it means we don't know how as of yet, as I stated previously, there is too much evidence in favour to support evolution to throw it out because we haven't researched an area of it yet. One study I found conducted the first systems-level analysis of human transcription factor (TF)-miRNA regulatory network. miRNAs have unique and even opposite evolutionary rules comparing with TFs and other protein-coding genes, suggesting that miRNAs may have unique functions and roles in various biological processes and disease (Chengxiang et al, 2010).The most interesting discovery from this study is that the evolutionary patterns of miRNAs are different from those of the TFs and other protein-coding genes at the network level (Chengxiang et al, 2010).


In conclusion, Reformadors quite long tweet did nothing but to highlight his own ignorance on the subject of science and his ability to strawman. For more information please check out the bibliography below.

TheKitch2 out!

References:
Fumio Kasai1, Ei-ichi Takahashi, Kumiko Koyama, Keiji Terao, Yumiko Suto1, Katsushi Tokunaga,Yusuke Nakamura, Momoki Hira (2000). Comparative FISH mapping of the ancestral fusion point of human chromosome 2. Chromosome Research. 8: 727-735.

Stanyon R (1983) A test of the karyotypic ¢ssioning theory of
primate evolution. Biosystems 16: 57-63.

Yunis JJ, Prakash O (1982) The origin of man: A chromosomal
pictorial legacy. Science 215: 1525-1530.

Clemente IC, Ponsa M, Garcia M, Egozcue J (1990) Evolution
of the simiiformes and the phylogeny of human chromosome.
Hum Genet 84: 493-506.

Hastie ND, Allshire RC (1989) Human telomeres: fusion and
interstitial sites. Trends Genet 5: 326-331.

Ijdo JW, Baldini A, Ward DC, Reeders ST, Wells RA (1991)
Origin of human chromosome 2: An ancestral telomere^telomere fusion. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 88:9051-9055.

Luke S, Verma RS (1992) Origin of human chromosome 2. Nat Genet 2: 11-12

Hattori K (1998.Drivers of intelligence evolution in Homo: Sexual behavior, food acquisition and infant neoteny. Mankind Quaterly. 39 (2): 127-146.

Avarello R, Pedicini A, Caiulo A, Zuffardi O, Fraccaro M, Evidence for an ancestral alphoid domain on the long arm of human chromosome 2. Hum Genet 1992 May;89(2):247-9

Chengxiang Qiu1, Juan Wang1, Pengying Yao1, Edwin Wang,Qinghua Cui1 (2010). microRNA evolution in a human transcription factor and microRNA regulatory network. BMC Systems Biology. 4:90

Trolling With Logic Live - Kent Hovind PWNAGE

The team PWN Kent Hovind's "100 reasons why evolution is so stupid" Live.

With: Zulufightrunner, Thekitch2, Admiralcasey18, Emptywithoutbrain, BigLundi, Martymer81 & Damaxman.

Special guests from Skeptic TV : Collin & AngryWomble

TWL LIVE! - EmptyWithoutBrain V ThickShades - Free Will debate

Emptywihoutbrain debates Thickshades on the subject of free will

Also related calls and questions

A strange caller named BigLundi calls in. What ever happened to him ?.

TWL LIVE! - 18th December 2011

SoundofScilence & BigLundi discuss the merits of philosophy and science.
Kieth1y calls in briefly to argue for faith healing
here

TWL LIVE! - CENSORED! tonight 8pm GMT on BlogTV

Watch it here.

Christopher Hitchens has died :'(

I'm sure you've heard the details about Hitchen's death right? We even had a TWL show that was dedicated to our friend Hitchens (Never said we talked about him all the time). But anyways, heres some vids with our thoughts of his death:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlu2Yjj3n5E&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-4N1h9ycCY&feature=plcp&context=C3078b29UDOEgsToPDskLHEzuYhv1_G2bLlkZh6IOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2kgQxIejX4

Is faith a good thing?

Hi, I've decided to get the ball rolling by reposting an old article, that has got some good reviews. Also I have been told was reposted on the LOR website.

Is faith necessarily a good thing? When this question is asked, one usually thinks of religious faith, and yes I will be looking at this, however I will be considering the question of the benefits and consequences of faith more broadly. There are many things to have faith in, yourself, your family and friends, your co-workers, political parties, politicians, political systems and of course deities for example. I will be covering these in this blog, and giving my view of faith in general.

The first place to start that seems fitting is faith in yourself or self-confidence. The benefits of self-confidence should be obvious. Having self-belief will motivate you to work towards a goal that you desire to achieve, that may be getting that dream job or winning that trophy, or at the severe end, having self-belief that you will recover from a life threatening condition or paralysis will have you better off than someone who has lost all hope (of course confidence is absolutely no substitute for medicine). Think about it, if you have faith in yourself, you will make the effort, you will fight to achieve what you want in life, this may be that trophy, job or even mobility or life itself. If you don’t, you will not make the effort necessary to gain what you desire or even survive. Of course you can have too much of a good thing, and too much self-confidence leads to arrogance. Arrogant gobshites are probably the most annoying people that I come across in everyday life, and which I make conscience effort to avoid coming across as. These people are not only frustrating, but when taken seriously they can be dangerous. For example let’s look at VenomfangX (PCS), during the height of his popularity on Youtube he had a massive fan base, which he deceived and conned out of money, and at his eventual downfall, tried to get them to have DPRJones arrested (or at least suspended from youtube) on the basis of a phoney paedophilia charge, (which he done as a reaction to his bruised ego) which could have been quite serious for DPR if the authorities had taken action.

In order for a society to function there must be a certain amount of trust between members of that society. At the most fundamental level, there must be faith between family and friends, we’re a social species and need others to not only survive, but to reproduce. Because of this we have evolved to possess a desire for human contact, kinship. But in order for this kinship to succeed, there must be an element of trust (I think Elvis hit the nail on the head with when he sung “we can’t go on together, with suspicious minds”). We trust friends and family to be there when we need them, as are we trusted to do the same. In work we trust our co-workers to do their job properly, (e.g. when I work in a lab, I trust that my partner will do his/her best to carry out the procedure correctly, or at least until we get a result!).However faith here is not only a positive thing, as sometimes we can be betrayed by our family and friends (e.g. that awkward moment when you step into the bedroom to surprise your wife, when coming home from work early, only to be surprised to find your best friend and herself playing hide the sausage!)The character Iago from William Shakespeare’s “Othello” beautifully demonstrates the idea of betrayal, the venomous snake which poisons the mind of the noble Othello, which leads to tragic climax of the play. Not only can faith be misplaced, it can turn out that you had too much confidence in that person, you overestimate their abilities, which can lead to disaster when they eventually fail, because you expected too much of them.

Politics is an area I don’t have a lot of knowledge in, however at least I know that complete faith is most definitely a bad thing. Having complete faith in an idea, political person or system is stupidity itself. This will happen when the people are either sacred or so woefully uneducated that they don’t understand the issues being discussed or the ramifications of policies that are being proposed. Yes there is a certain amount of faith we hold when we are voting for that politician, we believe that he/she will try to do what he/she says he/she’ll do, and when we’re eventually disappointed we elect a new politician (or at least that’s the theory!). However when we abandon our reason and out of fear or ignorance vote for the charismatic leader offering the easy way out in difficult times, there will be terrible consequences. Hitler (I know, Godwins law) was elected in Germany as he was a great public speaker who offered all the answers to Germanys problems, however the electorate didn’t analyse his ideas, but just voted in ignorance, and well the rest as they say is history. I can see this in the Tea party, and no I don’t think the Tea party and the Nazi party are the same, Hitler was charismatic, well-spoken and intelligent, Sarah Palin is just a blundering buffoon, though if the Tea party by some stroke of luck (or just a stroke suffered by the electorate as they were voting) were to gain power in America, then I can safely say we’ll all be rightly fucked!

And here is where I get to the meat of my blog, religious faith. Believing in a deity or deities can be comforting, especially when it comes to the subject of death. And faith can motivate people to do great things, look at the religious charities that do brilliant work in the poorest of countries, however charity work is not exclusive to the religious, there are many secular charities out there too (eg MSF). I have no problem with those who have faith in a god because it gives them a feel good factor or it motivates them to do good, however I will speak out when it is used to do terrible things. I’ll speak out when faith is used to retard scientific inquiry and progress. Science and religion has always been at odds (e.g. Galileo and Newton versus the Catholic Church), and in the past, science had a hard time due to the weight religion was given (e.g. the Dark ages) and fairy tales were used to explain the unknown rather than trying to figure it out (before anyone knew about immunology, people believed that disease was a punishment from god, and if you recovered, it means that you saw the error of your ways and god forgave you). I think the example we are all familiar with in modern times is creationism or intelligent design or whatever they’re calling themselves now! The subject of evolution seems almost controversial in modern times (even though the matter was settled decades ago in the scientific community), and the unscientific idea of a creator is actually pretty big in the US. This in my opinion is quite concerning, polls show that around 66% of Americans believe in the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, and I don’t know about you but I care that the majority of the population of a nation that holds so much sway in the world, think that the Flintstones is a history documentary and that science is wrong.

However it’s not just evolution, that religious faith has problems with, another great example is stem cell research. Many poor deluded fools try to put an end to embryonic stem cell research because of religious reasons, they believe that life begins when at fertilisation (ignoring the fact that the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation, which none of the cells are allowed to advance to). Stem cell research offers the possibility to cure some terrible conditions, and to try to stop it, is in my view idiotic and harmful, especially for religious reasons. This leads me on to my next point, abortion. Religious people claim that abortion is murder, and label those who support the right of a woman to choose, as murderers. Now I believe that a woman has a right to choose what happens to her body, especially if she is a victim of rape, but I don’t love abortions as the pro-lifers claim, I would like abortion to be the last option, but if she decides that she wants to go that route, I have no right to stop her or to guilt her into not having it, however religious people will try guilt her into not having it with threats of eternal pain, or calling her a murderer (again the foetus doesn’t have the capacity of consciousness or self-sustenance so is it really murder?) , which I can imagine is not really helpful afterwards, especially if she becomes depressed. Also I’m utterly dumbfounded when a “pro-lifer” tries to prove his/her point by blowing up abortion clinics or murders an abortion doctor (e.g. “Tiller the baby killer”), isn’t their Christian faith inspiring?

The last point in this science vs. religion topic is the Catholic churches view on contraception. The Catholic church seem to think that contraception increases the risk of catching the HIV virus, which at first is slightly amusing, however one quickly is horrified when they learn that people actually believe them. AIDs is a tremendous problem in Sub Saharan Africa where 22,000,000 people suffer from AIDs and 11,600,000 children are orphans due to AIDs (data from apa.ie.). The Catholic Church does have a lot of sway in Africa, and do teach that condoms increase the risk of the transmission of HIV, which is loathsome and false, especially in light of the above information.

Religious faith does not only retard science, it also is used to oppress. Homosexuality is looked upon by the majority of fundamentalists as a sin (even though it harms no one), and will harass, bully, assault (which can lead to murder, e.g. Matthew Sheppard) and deny them the right to marry the person that they love. The high rates of suicide (of which I’m quite interested in as a close friend of mine killed himself out of depression) among homosexuals is caused by the isolation and guilt they feel because of the harassment and crap they get from the anti-gay religious movement. There was international condemnation over Ugandas anti homosexuality legislation, which would make homosexuality a capital offense, however in their “mercy” will now probably drop the death penalty in the legislation. What drove that you ask? Easy, religious faith!

Finally and most obviously, religious faith can inspire violence as after all you have the will of the almighty, who would dare question the divine wisdom of your “loving” god? Al Quidea is the most obvious choice, as they carried out the worst terrorist attack in American history (i.e. 9/11, if you didn’t know this then you should stop reading this blog, you are too stupid. That is an order). But Al Quidea aren’t the only people using faith as an excuse to kill, or the first. History is full of wars and atrocities cause by religious faith, e.g. the crusades, the Inquisition or the Thirty Years war. In our civilised day and age, faith is still used to commit acts of violence, it is used to bomb abortion clinics, murdering abortion doctors, assaulting and killing homosexuals etc. Fundamentalist Islam is far behind the rest of the developing world, where a mere criticism is enough to merit a bloody death, (Theo Van Gogh?).


In conclusion I would just like to reiterate that I don’t mind people holding on to a religious faith, unless that faith is telling them to do anything which I have just stated above. Also it is my opinion that faith overall is neither good nor bad, it depends on the circumstances, when and where and who.

TheKitch2, out.

Equestions Is A Cunt

Equestions is a Cunt